|
To perform a search, click on ==> Search
 A corporate Apology
by the SDA Church
by Nic Samojluk
It is a well-known fact that the late John Paul II did apologize for the past sins of the church, not once, but on numerous occasions. According to one reporter, he did so over a hundred times. Do you think that the current church leaders have a moral obligation to confess the sins of those who preceded them in church office? Evidently the officers of the German and Austrian Seventh-day Adventist church think so, since they decided it was time to do exactly that:
| Quote: |
Noting the sixtieth anniversary of the end of World War II, Seventh-day Adventist church leaders in Germany and Austria have released a declaration saying they "deeply regret" any participation in or support of Nazi activities during the war. The church bodies "honestly confess" a failure "in following our Lord" by not protecting Jews, and others, from that era's genocide, widely known as the Holocaust. Millions of people perished from war atrocities, including more than 6 million Jews who were exterminated in Nazi persecutions during the 12-year period of 1933 to 1945 ...
The church says it also regrets "that in some of our publications . . . there were found articles glorifying Adolf Hitler and agreeing with the ideology of anti-Semitism in a way that is unbelievable from today's [perspective]." ...
Under various racial decrees, some Adventist congregations expelled members of Jewish heritage. One, Max-Israel Munk, was placed in two concentration camps by the Nazis and survived and returned to his church after the war. He said he did not wish to act toward his congregation in the way in which he had been treated, according to Daniel Heinz, a church archivist at Friedensau Adventist University who has studied Adventist activities during the National Socialist era ...
During World War I a portion of the German Adventist church had split off, opposing any military service. This led the National Socialists in 1936 to ban the so-called "Reform Movement" during their time in power. Brugger said concern over a Nazi closure of the main Adventist churches may have weighed on leaders in that era.
"I think during these times the official leaders of our church were afraid of losing the control over the church and losing the church because the political authorities had already . . . [confused] our church with the Reform movement," he explained. "I think our leaders were afraid to lose the official recognition of our church, so therefore maybe they were not [as faithful] to our beliefs as would have been necessary." ...
|
To read the entire article, click on the link listed at the bottom of this posting!
As I read and re-read this official report by the church, I wondered: Will the SDA church some day issue a similar apology for not acively opposing the genocide that has been taking place since the legalization of abortion in the U.S. back in 1973? We have used tons of ink and paper decrying the desecration of God's Holy Time--the Sabbath. We feel it is a great offense against the God of heaven when we break the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue. Well, how about the other commandment which reads: You shall not murder?
If time is sacred, how about human life? Is the death of over 40 million innocent babies less offensive to the Lord than worshipping God on the wrong day of the week? Personally, I have sent my humble donations both to the local church and the General Conference and designated them as Pro-Life contributions. There were duly returned with the following explanation: The church does not have such a program.
The current merciless slaughter of innocent children before they are born reminds me of the murder of innocent Jewish boys by King Pharaoh of old and the slaughter of the innocents by King Herod. The church has apologized for keeping silence while six million innocent Jews were exterminated in the Nazi concentration camps. Do you think that the day may come when the future leaders of the General Conference may offer a similar apology for doing nothing while the murder of the children through abortion was taking place in America and the world? If you think I am on the right track, don't you think that it would be much better to do the right thing today?
http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=92
The Pope Never Apologized!
by Wyjoz U2
I received the following comment by email from WyJoz U2:
| Quote: |
|
You write: " It is a well-known fact that the late John Paul II did apologize for the past sins of the church, not once, but on numerous occasions. According to one reporter, he did so over a hundred times. "
Nic; The Pope never apologized! Sorry re-read all his speaches. Sorry man! I'm going to hold you to this one!
John Paul II himself called "those unspeakable crimes"
If these crimes are committed, we must speak of them! Matt 19
THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT SIN therefore IT DOES NOT APOLOGIZE! this is something that non-catholics understand, or ever will understand!
The 'lame' wordings of unspeakable crimes is not APOLOGY! This is only one of the articles, there are hundreds! THE POPE DID NOT--THE POPE NEVER APOLOGIZED! I'll be happy to send you more on this.
http://biblelight.net/pope_to_seek_forgiveness.htm
My Response to Wyjozby Nic Samojluk
You state that:
| Quote: |
| THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT SIN therefore IT DOES NOT APOLOGIZE! |
It all depends on how you define Church and how you define Apologize. If you define the church as the mystical body of Christ, then, how can you blame Jesus Christ for the sins of the church. Nevertheless, if you mean by church those who speak and act in the name of the church, then you have to admit that both priests and bishops are human beings and they do sin. A good example is the numerous cases of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.
Then if you state that the church cannot sin, then of course, a million apologies by the pope would be meaningless, because the mystical body of Christ cannot be accused of any sin, and all those apologies would be misplaced. The problem is that if you reach such a conclusion, then you have to admit that the Pope is a fallible man, because he is asking forgiveness for the sins of the church, a church that is sinless by definition. My personal opinion is that, at least in confessing the sins of the church, John Paul has given some evidence that he is infallible, at least in that respect!
I will let the reader decide whether John Paul II did or did not apologize. I am including an article I wrote for the forum some years ago about the Pope's many apologies. I did locate many more today, but for some reason the links I am getting are not working they way they should. I will try again another day.
http://www.sdaforum.com/page149.html
Read What they Don't Say or Write!
by Wyjoz
Nic: You could print 5 thousand volumes or 5 million pages of documented materials and not prove a thing. Sorry Nic, you do not 'get' Catholicism at all.
In order for you to understand you must read did you get this read what they don't say or write.
Wyjoz
I do not Understand Double Talk!
by Nic Samojluk
I do not claim to be an expert in Catholic Dogma. Nevertheless, I believe that I do understand plain English. What I do not understand is double talk. When people begin to redefine simple and clear words like apology, sins of the church, and asking for forgiveness, then I give up. A good example of double talk is when Bill clinton attempted to redefine the word is. He did not get very far.
I am not planning to post five million pages, neither am I trying to prove a point. But in fairness to those who may read these postings, I have a duty to keep my word and post what I promised to do: a few links to articles dealing with the subject, which will allow them to make up their minds as to whether I am all wet or not. If it turns that I am mistaken, it wouldn't be the first time, since I have been wrong many times in the past!
| Quote: |
| Pope John Paul II himself doesn't entirely agree with all of his predecessors. He declared the Inquisition, which was established by a Papal Bull under Sixtus IV (1471-1484), the "greatest error in Church history." |
The infamous Spanish Inquisition was not done in a corner, but under the blessing of the highest Catholic hierarchy, and John Paul II stated that it was the greatest error in the Church history. This is what I call plain English language. Of course, he might have said this in Latin, so I have no choice but to rely in the expertise of those who translated what the Pope said. I had four years of Latin, but that was over half a century ago, and I remember very little of it: things like amo, amas , amat, etc.
http://www.allaboutreligion.org/pope-john-paul-ii.htm
If I am wrong, then at least I am in good company: the CBS News reporter who wrote this article.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/15/world/main623253.shtml
| Quote: |
| JIM LEHRER: There was an extraordinary event in Rome yesterday as Pope John Paul II issued an apology for errors of his church over the last 2000 years ... |
Evidently the press interpreted John Paul II's statement as an apology for the sins of the church. These sins were committed by those who were talking and acting in the name of the Catholic church.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/religion/jan-june00/apology_3-13.html
| Quote: |
Pope John Paul II has publicly asked God's forgiveness for the sins of Roman Catholics through the ages, including wrongs inflicted on Jews, women and minorities.
The unprecedented gesture by the spiritual leader of the world's one billion Catholics is one of the first major events of the Vatican's year-long celebrations marking the beginning of the new Christian millennium.
Pope John Paul II
"We are asking pardon for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some have committed in the service of truth, and for attitudes of mistrust and hostility assumed toward followers of other religions," said Pope John Paul II, dressed in the purple robes of Lent.
The phrase "violence in the service of truth" is an often-used reference to the treatment of heretics during the Inquisition, the Crusades, and forced conversions of native peoples ...
|
If this is not an apology, then it is plain double talk, double talk by the Holy Father, the allegedly highest religious authority on earth.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/674246.stm
| Quote: |
THE BALTIMORE CATECHISM instructed generations of American Roman Catholics that the marks of the Church are four: It is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.
Comes now Pope John Paul II and adds a fifth: It is sinful.
"Lord God," the Pope prayed on Sunday, "your pilgrim church … counts among her children in every age … members whose disobedience to you contradicts the faith we profess … Forgive our sins." ...
|
When someone argues that when John Paul asked forgivenes for the sins of the church he was not referring to the sins of the church, that is simply double talk. I opt for the plain English language interpretation.
http://216.247.220.66/jacoby/2000/jj03-17-00.htm
| Quote: |
Pope John Paul II launched an unprecedented "examination of conscience," culminating in a sweeping mea culpa on the first Sunday in the first Lent of Christianity's third millennium.
"In this year of mercy the Church, strong in the holiness which she receives from her Lord, should kneel before God and implore forgiveness for the past and present sins of her sons and daughters," John Paul declared at a Mass in St. Peter's Basilica on March 12, 2000. "Let us forgive and ask forgiveness!"
In the wake of John Paul's death Saturday, what he called a "purification of memory," or what might be called a theology of apology, may also stand as one of his most important, and least recognized, legacies.
More than a generic statement of regret, John Paul's millennium sermon referred specifically to the violence of holy wars among Christians and the Inquisition against non-believers, and, as if to ensure that his message would not be lost on future generations, he had several cardinals -- many of them considered potential successors -- read more detailed indictments of Catholic sins ...
|
Notice the reference to the infamous Inquisition, which was carried out with the blessing of the highest hierarchy of the Catholic church. This is stated in plain English. No couble talk. If I don't understand the Catholic dogma, then all these reporters are in the same boat with me. Of course, if John Paul engaged in double talk, then all bets are off.
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/religion/content/stories/pope7.html
| Quote: |
VATICAN CITY ,(Reuters) -- In one of the most significant acts of his papacy, Pope John Paul sought forgiveness on Sunday for the many past sins of his Church, including its treatment of people of other religions.
"We forgive and we ask for forgiveness," the Pope, wearing the purple vestments of Lenten mourning, said in the homily of a moving and unprecedented ceremony in St Peter's Basilica.
"We ask forgiveness for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some Christians used in the service of the truth and for the behaviour of diffidence and hostility sometimes used towards followers of other religions," he said.
The phrase "violence in the service of truth" was an often- used reference to the treatment of heretics during the Inquisition, the Crusades, and forced conversions of native ...
|
How could have so many news reporters misunderstood what John Paul had so clearly stated? Therefore, I repeat, if I am wrong on this, then I happen to be in good company!
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/03/12/pope.apology/
| Quote: |
VATICAN CITY -- Pope John Paul II on Sunday asked for forgiveness for many of his church's past sins, including its treatment of Jews, heretics, women and native peoples.
It was believed to be the first time in the history of the Catholic Church that one of its leaders sought such a sweeping pardon ...
|
The pope's mention of Jews and heretics is a clear reference to the Holocaust and the Inquisition.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe/03/12/pope.apology.02/
|
 Free Mailing List Club!
If you would like to be on our SDA Forum Mailing List, please take a minute to sign up today and join hundreds of others who have done already so. It is free, and you will have the choice of unsuscribing at will. We do not share, nor do we sell your E-mail to others.
|
